Проблем с "limp mode" - авариен режим

[qnkov]

Правя тази тема, защото рано или късно ще се разбере откъде идва точно проблема и ще е от полза на някого след това.
Признаците са следните:
- влизане в авариен режим и "изключване" на турбото

- случва се само и единствено на 6 та предавка

- след рестарт се оправя

- възможно е да се продължи да се кара на 5-та предавка без да влиза в limp mode

- индикатор на таблото - премигващ подгрев

- усеща се при бууст на 2 ра предавка как минава 2000 оборота без да изтегля и изведнъж се изстрелва към 3000 об чак.

 

Техническо състояние:

- геометрията е наред - лостчето се мести свободно за лопатките

- ЕГР - замерен от колегата bsdnikolov е в нормите- не е запушен

- ДПФ не е запушен и е в отлично състояние

- вакуум маркучите изглеждат наред и няма течове на масло от турбо пътища

 

 

След като я занесох при майстора, който ползвам от дълго време:
- каза че е замерил н75 и е дал нисък волтаж

- потвърди, че геометрията е наред

- пробвал е с датчик от друга кола и всичко е било ок

- смених датчика с нов на Пиербург

 

Резултата:

- 200 км до тунела на София работи всичко нормално (може би единствено на 2 ра се усещаше на моменти как не е на 100% но все пак беше добре ускорението)

- изръчках я -180-190 без проблеми 

Изненадата дойде на тунела преди София по магистралата като се включи мигащия подгрев и limp mode.

Номер на грешката още преди ремонта с помощта (безрезервната на колегата Пламен:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03G-906-021-BMM.clb

   Part No SW: 03G 906 021 JH    HW:            
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG  0882 
   Revision: --H02---    Serial number: AUX7Z0F3FNP0AZ
   Coding: 0000172
   Shop #: WSC 80093 222 69422
   VCID: 6ED328337962DE6E76F-803B

1 Fault Found:

000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation
               P0299 - 000 - Control Range Not Reached - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110000
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 166654 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.22
                    Time: 15:33:59

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2268 /min
                    Speed: 74.0 km/h
                    Load: 40.0 %
                    Voltage: 14.44 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00101000
                    Absolute Pres.: 1825.8 mbar
                    Absolute Pres.: 1366.8 mbar

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

End   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Довечера ще я замерим пак да видим дали е същата.

Инфо, което намерих днес и смятам да проверя за всеки случай.

 

 

Crasher, 
You are a genius mate. I took the Touareg to Diesel Injection services Burscough. I told them what you said and they investigated the problem thoroughly. They found that a diaphram had gone in the vacume system. Under £100 to fix. This after two garages had insisted that it required a new turbo at over £2,000 !!! and it would not have solved the problem.
Much respect to you mate. I will be making a good sized donation to the site as a thank you.

 

 

I have been having the same problem for months. Last weekend I replaced the hose between the N75 and the turbo and decided to provide some strain relief at the turbo actuator. Basically I cut a 3-inch piece of transmission oil hose with an inside diameter just slightly larger than the outside diameter of the vacuum hose. I slid the tranny cooler hose over the end of the vacuum hose, firmly attached the vacuum hose to the turbo actuator, then slid the tranny hose down toward the turbo actuator. Looks nice, eh?

 

 

 

My car would go into limp mode primarily when driving at low loads at the point at which I would slowly start to accelerate. Often this would happen in the morning as mentioned by other posters. The best (worst) example was driving West on I-80 down a hill, and just as the road leveled out while I was still coasting, and as I started to press on the go pedal, poof! No oomph to get over the next hill as several semi-trucks are crawling up my tail!
After a week of driving, no more limp mode! 
Why would this work? First, the extreme bend that the hose has to endure has always bothered me. Just seemed like a problem waiting to happen. I figure that since the vacuum is highest when the boost is at zero, this is when the hose is most likely to collapse under the strain of the vacuum. Any small bend or kink in the hose is going to make it more probable to pinch off the vacuum "flow." When the ECU tells the N75 to give more boost (less vacuum) the hose is pinched off and under vacuum. Eventually the hose will open up, but the ECU is too impatient and acts to protect the engine and throws it into limp mode.

 

It's split but there is a clip, to join it to another pipe, think it clips onto the plastic intake pipe @ the top rear of the engine, its only a small pipe, like a senseing pipe or like u say N75, but I can't see the other end, it does go down the way of the turbo, but like I say, not sure what the box with other pipes is. All I know is it's labeled 9.
Also once I switch off the engine it cures it for a while, could this be it?
Any ideas?
Cheers 

 

 

That unit is a vacuum unit so if you have a pipe with a split then I dare say that'll cause an issue.

Редактирано 30 Октомври 2015 от qnkov

[qnkov]

16683/P0299/000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Control Range Not Reached Possible Symptoms

• Reduced Power Output
• Limp Mode

Possible Causes

• Hoses/Pipes incorrect connected, disconnected or leaking
• Charger Pressure Control defective
• Turbocharger faulty
• Diverter Valve faulty

Possible Solutions

• Check Hoses/Pipes to/between Components
• Check / Clean / Replace Charge Pressure Control
• Check Turbocharger
• Check Diverter Valve

Special Notes

• When found in 2.0l TFSI:
  • Check Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249), for cracked rubber diaphragm. A new/optimized Valve is available under Part # 06H-145-710-D (or newer).
    • RoW vehicles see: TPI 2016331 for details.
    • NAR vehicles see: TSB 01-07-70 or 2013392 for details.
  • When stored in conjunction with misfire codes and/or fuel trim faults see the notes associated with the following faults regarding PCV failure: P2279, P1136, P1297, P1093 and/or P0507.
• If the Turbocharger is faulty due to mechanical / internal problems or the exhaust system is restricted (typically the Catalyst) this fault may be the end result.
• When found in VW Golf/Jetta (1K): 2.0l CR-TDI (CBEA/CJAA):
  • Verify the mechanical part of the Exhaust Valve Control Module (J883) is not seized or binding.
• When found in Audi A4/S4/RS4/Cabriolet (8K): 2.0l (CAEB):
  • See TPI 2031245/6 - turbocharger excessive waste-gate play

 

 

 

1. Error code that shows Boost Deviation Intermittent, Boost Deviation Negative, Boost Deviation Positive, Intake Manifold Pressure xxxxx, charge pressure control deviation
These codes show a problem with the system that senses turbo boost and controls the turbo. Most of the time, a sudden cut of power is related to sensor or turbo problems. These codes generally show an underboost or overboost situation which sets you into limp mode. The N75 solenoid is the solenoid that controls pressure to the turbo wastegate (mk3 TDI) or vacuum to the VNT actuator (mk4, mk5, mk6 TDI). Here's how it works: once the intake manifold pressure sensor shows boost pressure reaching the desired value, the ECU activates the N75 solenoid which fluctuates vac/pressure to the wastegate/VNT actuator to stabilize the boost pressure at the desired value. If the vacuum lines are broken or the solenoid is bad, it won't control pressure which causes a problem which the ECU sees. You can try removing the N75 and flushing it out with electronic cleaner. Once dry, try a squirt of WD40 inside to help the solenoid move freely.

Check the engine wiring harness grounds for corrosion or breaks. Bad/corroded grounds can cause mysterious electrical problems. There's a ground under the battery which is exposed to leaking battery acid and can corrode.

Check the wiring/connector for breaks or corrosion coming to and from the N75 valve. The wiring harness pin #1 (the one on the left) for N75 should have battery voltage. If not, you have a short on that wire. Resistance from each N75 pin to its respective ECU pin should be around 1.5 ohm. The wiring is normally OK. A more common failure is a bad N75 itself. Resistance between the two pins on the N75 solenoid is 14-20 ohm on an ALH engine with the ignition off.

The N75 in the 1996-97 passat is on the firewall next to the coolant reservoir. The 1996-1999 Jetta N75 is in the engine bay on the passenger side fender by the fuel filter. The 1998-2006 mk4 generation N75 is on the firewall behind the accordion-like hose coming from the airbox.

N75 1996-1999 mk3 body, VW #028-906-283-F (pierburg type n75)
N75 1998-1999 mk4 body, VW #1H0-906-627-A, for Up To Vin # 9 MX 999000
N75 1998-2005 mk4 body, VW #1J0-906-627-A, ALH and BHW engine, for From Vin # 9M Y 000 001, D shaped connector

Here is what the n75 solenoid looks like inside and how it works: the solenoid cycles back and forth to allow vacuuum through it. (click to enlarge) To test the N75 solenoid wiring,, pin #1

If you have an mk4, swap the EGR solenoid with the n75 solenoid as a temporary test for the N75. It's possible for the EGR solenoid to cause limp mode but this is not as common as the other problems, cleaning it out may be the solution. Again, check the vacuum lines first and the solenoid itself for resistance.

 

1a. Boost Deviation Intermittent means you most likely have a vacuum leak somewhere. Check all vacuum lines, turbo actuator, and plastic fittings. There are vacuum lines that connect the turbo, car computer, sensors, etc., and tend to get frayed at the ends or rub through.

1b. Boost Deviation Negative means you have a clogged intake, turbo actuator that's leaking, bad vacuum lines, or a sticky turbo actuator lever. If you have a VNT turbo, it may be because of stuck VNT vanes which requires removal and cleaning of the vanes. See the below section for related causes.

1c. Boost Deviation Positive means you have a N75 that's bad/malfunctioning, actuator that's leaking, bad vacuum lines, bad boost sensor, or a sticky turbo VNT or wastegate lever. If you have a VNT turbo, it may require removal and cleaning of the vanes. See the below section for related causes. If you're getting an overboost error, it's never the MAF.

For mk3 cars only: The A3 and B4 models (1996- 1999 jetta/passat TDI) have a vacuum line inside of the ECU. If you get error 65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error and some boost codes, it's most likely this hose. The plastic inside may be fragile so see 1000q: ecu hose for a "how to", pictures, and a diagram of the vacuum line routing. The line connects the outside of the ECU to a pressure sensor inside the ECU. Later cars do not have this internal line. The mk3 TDI don't have a VNT actuator and the wastegate is fairly reliable. To test the wastegate actuator, apply pressure to the vac line going to the wastegate can. The wastegate arm should move. If it doesn't, it indicates a problem with the actuator or vacuum line.

For mk4-mk6 cars only: The turbo actuator or turbo vanes can get stuck. See 1000q: VNT actuator check and removal and 1000q: turbo cleaning for more details and the below section. Below are vacuum line diagrams for the mk4 ALH (below left) and BEW (labeled BEW) engines. (1Z and AHU engine vacuum diagram was in the ecu hose article linked above). There should be stickers above the radiator support that have vacuum diagrams there too if you don't have one of these engines.

 

 

4. EGR or exhaust leak can also cause limp mode 

Was the intake manifold recently removed and cleaned? The metal EGR hoses could have come loose or cracked. If there's enough of an exhaust leak at the EGR hoses or exhaust manifold, the gases powering the turbo will leak out, causing unexpected values and limp mode. Check for soot stains around the exhaust area. It's common for the intake hoses or valve cover to seep oil so make sure that's not what you see. There's a video of an EGR hose leak in the boost leak article above.

5. If the fuel filter has not been changed in the last 20,000 miles, it's possible that it's clogged and is restricting fuel.
A bad batch of biodiesel or diesel fuel can clog the fuel filter. If you have a high mileage car, using a high percentage of biodiesel can clean out old deposits that travel through the fuel lines and clog the fuel filter. If your fuel injectors have been sitting dry outside of the car, diesel fuel can go bad and gum up the tiny components inside the fuel injector.

6. The intake could be so clogged with carbon that it's causing limp mode.
Remove the intake piping before the intake manifold and look with a flashlight. If you've never seen a clogged intake, you will be surprised at the amount of carbon buildup in the intake manifold. Up to 1/5-1/6" of buildup on the inside is normal. Please refer to the FAQ for your intake manifold cleaning and removal DIY. Mk3 and mk4 cars are more prone to carbon buildup due to design and EGR metering. Now that all fuel sold in North America (not Mexico) is ultra low sulfur diesel (USLD) only, clogging problems were much less.

 

It's possible that the EGR valve or intake flap are sticking due to carbon. It's also possible that the EGR valve (and its vacuum lines and control solenoid) is bad or the intake flap gears are stripped (intake flaps 2004 and newer are electrically actuated and use plastic gears).

7. It could be the MAF air flow sensor contributing to the problem although this normally isn't the sole cause.
See the MAF FAQ article for detailed testing procedures. MAF problems could be causing both constant low power and triggering limp mode. This problem is common on mk4 and newer cars but rare on mk3 TDI. A bad MAF does not normally trip an error code. A bad MAF does not trip overboost but could contribute to underboost.

 

 

Това тук също ми се струва логично:
he fault code is just reporting that the car is under boosting. It could be a number of things, boost leak, sticking vanes, EGR etc. It's common however for these to split the diaphragm in the turbo actuator. Have a look at your n75 valves duty cycle and see what's happening there. Or if you have access to a mityvac check that the actuator is holding vacuum

Редактирано 30 Октомври 2015 от qnkov

[qnkov]

Oктавия - 2.0 BKD - проблема се оказва в актуатора накрая.

С други думи май ключът от бараката е точно там - геометрия и актуатор. Много "май" станаха...
Попрочетох туй-онуй http://www.myturbodi... ... adjust.htm и днес, сутринта, качих октито на канала и около 1 минута обливах актуатора с ВД40.
И - о чудо - само след 1 км колата започна отново да "дърпа" още от 1500 оборота (както е написал в неговата тема в "Проекти" Искрен (BlackPearl)).
Преди 5-6 дена "затапих" АГР-а:  25072010244.jpg   108,33K   433 Брой сваляния
Затапих го защото миналата седмица (сряда), майсторът почти нищо не чисти по клапана, а не чисти просто защото нямаше почти нищо за чистене. Аз пък си мислих, че всичко трябва да е лъскаво и за да елиминирам вероятността от неизправност на АГР-а (незатваряне), го "затапих", въпреки че в свалено положение се убедих, че затваря перфектно.

Редактирано 30 Октомври 2015 от qnkov

[ЖороСпасов]

Колега, след като ремонтирах турбото и колата ми вървеше много добре и изведнъж като на теб ми светна лампата за подгрев и заби муцуна, след рестартиране се оправя.Още не съм я закачал на компютър, но продполагам, че е някой датчик или както го споменавате тък "актуатор" или някой вакум, свързан с турбото.Този актуатор къде точно се намира на 1,9 ТДИ, 105 к.с 2006г.

Цитиране на предходно мнение!

Редактирано 16 Февруари 2016 от VBI

[ЖороСпасов]

Проблема е открит.Не ми беше актуатора на турбото, а се оказа, че има още един клапан на вакум и с лостче и се намира в долната част на двигателя под турбото и след като го промивах с ВД-40 и го раздвижих всичко се оправи.

Цитиране на предходно мнение!

Редактирано 22 Февруари 2016 от VBI